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Talk:Brawny Jerk/@comment-9269018-20190814030013/@comment-26121379-20190814165907
@Kipory You're making a false comparison. Multiattacking is not an alternate win condition. It is a mechanic to aid in the game's primary win condition. A mill deck is a deck that tries to win the game through milling out the opponent's library. Which means that there are two ways the deck can work. Either 1) The deck is capable of milling out enough cards fast enough where they can win within the same frame as winning through combat. 2) The deck can only mill someone slowly, one or two cards at a time, and will take very long to kill someone. There isn't a middle ground. This is why milling can work in other card games, but not vanguard. Because in vanguard, the primary win condition is through combat. In other games, it doesn't matter how much combat your opponent is doing, as that doesn't effect how much combat you're capable of doing. This is the problem with milling in vanguard. When your deck's wincondition does not need to play the damage game, then CB denial becomes an effective strategy. If your deck can do that fast, then it's crippling. If it can't, then what ends up happening is the game drags on slowly with you milling a few cards a turn as you try to eke out a win, while your opponent keeps attacking you. It will take them forever, but eventually they might get there; at that point, it's better to forego milling entirely and just play the game the normal way if winning through mill is not as efficient as winning through damage. So either milling is at a rate of speed and efficiency where it doesn't need to interact with your opponent at all, or it is so slow and ineffectual that winning the game through damage is the better alternative. "If you create a mill tactic that can reasonably win half the time it's played, as well as have 60 40 matches with it, it's fine." That's nice to say. Do it. In an ideal world, this is what would happen. The problem is, once you try to implement that tactic in a game like vanguard. Let's look at mill in a game like Magic: The Gathering. In Magic, mill can work because milling your opponent does not effect their ability to play the game. It is an annoyance, but you milling them out does not actually stop them from playing the game and interacting. They can still draw cards, play lands, and cast spells. All you're doing is putting them on an alternate clock to racing to damage. In standard 60 card, milling 2-3 cards is roughly the same as pinging someone for 1. There's an easy equivalence. Vanguard is different because of counter blasts. If your opponent is denying you damage because their win condition is mill, then they can win the game while barely needing to interact with you. And either this is an effective strategy, or it isn't. "Going by the common, there's a chance we see a Lord of Extinction like effect that focuses on and scales number of cards in all dropzones, better as a game goes on is good for MCs playstyle." This tells me you're misunderstanding my point. My point is not that a deck that mills out an opponent for other value, like with Lord of Extinction, is a bad thing. I would be fine with that. But that isn't what people are asking for, they're asking for a dedicated mill deck that is trying to win the game through deck out. Which is just not something that can be implemented effectively in vanguard because the damage system is so integral to player interaction. An entire clan focusing on not playing the game with your opponent is almost impossible to balance properly.